{"id":6995,"date":"2024-09-23T08:45:58","date_gmt":"2024-09-23T07:45:58","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2025-04-22T04:48:07","modified_gmt":"2025-04-22T04:48:07","slug":"voi-podcast-with-bruce-carman-founder-and-cuo-of-hive-underwriters","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/content\/voi-podcast-with-bruce-carman-founder-and-cuo-of-hive-underwriters\/","title":{"rendered":"An aviation MGA startup story"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p><iframe title=\"Ep224 Bruce Carman Hive Underwriters: MGAs are Insurance Speedboats\" allowtransparency=\"true\" height=\"150\" width=\"100%\" style=\"border: none; min-width: min(100%, 430px);height:150px;\" scrolling=\"no\" data-name=\"pb-iframe-player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/player-v2\/?i=js73g-16d5879-pb&amp;from=pb6admin&amp;share=0&amp;download=1&amp;rtl=0&amp;fonts=Tahoma&amp;skin=3267a3&amp;font-color=&amp;logo_link=episode_page&amp;btn-skin=1b1b1b\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Bruce Carman is the founder and chief underwriter of Hive Underwriters, the MGA he set up in 2017 and can rightly claim to be \u201can underwriting led business\u201d.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now in its eighth underwriting year, Hive Underwriting is \u201clarger than was planned\u201d, its founder and chief underwriting officer told the Voice of Insurance podcast. Aviation war maverick Bruce Carman created the specialist managing general agent (MGA) in 2017 and has risen to a book including multiple lines of aviation business together representing $125-130m gross written premium.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you\u2019ve ever felt daunted at the web of jargon, not just within insurance, but within aviation insurance business, check out this episode. Carman employs what he calls \u201cthe mother-in-law test\u201d to determine whether it can be explained to a lay person when asked \u2018what one does\u2019 over the dinner table.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Together with host Mark Geoghegan, Carman carefully takes the listener through the evolution of the market \u2013 including the \u2018AVN 52\u2019 cover that arose following the 9\/11 attacks \u2013 all the way up to the Russia-Ukraine war and the tangle of aviation hull war risk lawsuits between aircraft lessors and insurers since Russia confiscated dozens of airliners on the ground.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A leading aviation and war underwriter since the late 1980s, with more than 30 years\u2019 experience at the heart of the Lloyd\u2019s market, Carman has successfully expanded Hive, beyond its core war risk origins, and to employ 15 people, 11 of them full time, nine of whom are underwriters or traders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Carman thinks the phrase \u201can underwriting led business\u201d is \u201cprobably overused\u201d in the market but, based on its headcount alone, is a fair comment in Hive\u2019s case. This is not just about the headcount but also his own ethos as the boss.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cThat&#8217;s part of the reason why I call myself the chief underwriting officer,\u201d Carman said. \u201cBecause Founder, CEO, president, whatever you want to call yourself, at the end of the day, it&#8217;s just a title. I&#8217;m here to do a job which is trade on behalf of the capacity, and I have a handle on every risk that goes through the books.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Carman learned his trade as a war underwriter at Atrium Underwriters. However, this level of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/products\/underwriting\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">underwriting<\/a> risk ownership is \u201cmuch higher\u201d than what he experienced in his previous salaried roles as an underwriter within a traditional balance sheet insurer, he observed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Smart use of technology is part of the arithmetic, Carman emphasised, with a low headcount and a high proportion of underwriters, meaning a sizeable investment in technology has also been a priority.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cWe are efficient, and we have to use systems in order to sift and file. And I think systems is what does the heavy lifting, really,\u201d Carman said, noting that predictive foresight is more than \u201ccunning marketing words\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He recalled a cartoon of a CEO going into the modelling department, after a hurricane, and telling the analysts they\u2019re all fired, before adding: \u201cthey didn\u2019t see that coming, either!\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Carman said: \u201cHindsight is a beautiful thing, and we as insurers use predictive technology to try and forecast and foretell. What does that look like from a malicious damage, war risk perspective?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cWe partner with a bouquet of very clever people, the intelligence providers. We&#8217;ve done this for many years\u2026and their job is to tell us not just what&#8217;s occurred and what&#8217;s happening around the world, but most importantly, to make predictions and forecast,\u201d he added.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Turning foresight into insight was at the heart of Carman\u2019s thinking when he founded Hive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cForesight is really what I&#8217;m interested in, which is foretelling what might happen next. That knowledge led underwriting philosophy is at the heart of Hive\u2019s DNA, and that was the starting point when I wanted to set something up, creating the map of exposures, saying with some accuracy, what is on the ground at any one time at any one airport. Because that&#8217;s the thing that underwriters are concerned about.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The tool is called Sentinel, and was developed specifically for Hive, combining the kind of satellite transponder data and plane spotting apps that people sometimes download, with the granular exposure information, to together form a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/lines-of-business\/aviation\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">real-time \u201cup-to-the-minute\u201d aviation intelligence tool<\/a>, employed as an underwriting as well as <a href=\"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/products\/exposure\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">exposure management<\/a> aid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cThat&#8217;s real time, what&#8217;s happening here and now, but I&#8217;m interested in the forecasting, and that&#8217;s the human capital piece, which tries to distil down the politics, the movement of the troops on the ground, and the chitchat and the chatter on the waves, if you like,\u201d Carman said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He used the example of DHL flights to and from Baghdad in 2003, using intelligence of insurgents filmed \u201cwithin the perimeter wire\u201d of the airport.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cThe assured was somewhat perturbed and surprised that we had this level of information at the time. We said \u2018we think this risk is worth some more money\u2019. Well, the market didn&#8217;t. We effectively walked away from the risk at the time, but six weeks later, the aircraft was shot down. That&#8217;s the definition of knowledge led underwriting \u2013 using the intel and acting on it,\u201d Carman said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He was cautious to give sweeping statements about whether the outlook, from a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/lines-of-business\/political-risk\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">war risk or political violence perspective<\/a>, has worsened in recent years, but conceded that \u201cthe world is more divided\u201d than at any point since the end of the Cold War in 1990.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Asked about fears of a conflict between China and Taiwan, Carman revealed Hive has reduced its exposure to the area \u201cby some 90% in the past year and a half\u201d, but also suggested the market wasn\u2019t pricing in risk appropriately around the globe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cUndeniably there&#8217;s an increased risk; you have to say that,\u201d he said. \u201cBut it disappoints me that I work in a market that&#8217;s not a spot market. There&#8217;s undeniably more risk in Lebanon and Israel today, and yet the market isn&#8217;t charging for that.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bruce Carman is the founder and chief underwriter of Hive Underwriters, the MGA he set up in 2017 and can rightly claim to be \u201can underwriting led business\u201d. Now in its eighth underwriting year, Hive Underwriting is \u201clarger than was planned\u201d, its founder and chief underwriting officer told the Voice of Insurance podcast. Aviation war [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":6594,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ep_exclude_from_search":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[19,26],"tags":[10,14],"line-of-business":[27],"class_list":["post-6995","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcasts","category-latest-insights","tag-exposure","tag-underwriting-workbench","line-of-business-aviation"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6995","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6995"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6995\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6594"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6995"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6995"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6995"},{"taxonomy":"line-of-business","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.advantagego.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/line-of-business?post=6995"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}